On the show today we have… Justin Silverio of Open Letter Marketing on the show!
Listen on: iTunes | Stitcher | Spotify
Show Links:
– OpenLetterMarketing.com
– Jeff Watson Legal Wholesaling podcast
– The Get Better Project online fitness program
– How I Built This Podcast
– BiggerPockets Business Podcast
– Ed Mylett
Show notes for Justin Silverio of Open Letter Marketing
The Vantastic Life is…
– is on the Hawaiian island of Maui!
Justin is in Boston and presented at the PNW Big Bad Ass Real Estate Expo. This is a great event!
Joe
Justin, how did you get into real estate and marketing?
Justin
My dad built a house when I was little and I saw how beautiful that was, but I enjoyed numbers and went the accounting path. I did that for 12-15 years.
Then in 2010 I started watching HGTV, and thought it was cool. I could do the numbers and the real estate.
So I partnered with my father for a while. He said as soon as you feel comfortable you can buy me out.
Julie
I’m not sure how you can accounting to marketing. I’ve had a lot of trouble going from the one to the other.
Justin
I think it was because I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I was younger.
Julie
If Joe and I had a baby you are what it would be!
Are you Canadian?
Justin
No, but I don’t have a Boston accent. And it’s funny because I have this little Canadian thing.
Next up I bought out my dad, but it was a little hectic, and my wife was a huge supporter.
I found the majority of my deals from direct mail. And didn’t like relying on other people to give me deals.
Julie
You do find the best deals when you are finding them yourself. If you’re an investor or agent this is true.
The last thing that investors think about is taxes. Even the best ones. It seems backwards to me.
I find it oddly interesting that people wait to figure out their tax stuff until way later on.
Or new investors try to protect everything before they have anything to protect.
Justin
Yeah, I see that a lot.
Julie
Do you still do real estate investing?
Justin
I do still invest. I pivot a lot depending on the market and risk tolerance.
I started out with entry level, then middle level, then high end, and now condo development. But 90% of my deals are still wholesales.
Not many people can find good deals around here, so I’m able to find good spreads.
Julie
Have you ever considered out of market wholesaling?
Justin
Over the last year I’ve been tweaking my processes and hiring people to do some virtual wholesaling.
Julie
Well, Justin is the owner of OpenLetterMarketing.com and a lot of people have seen you speak at Tarl’s event Big Bad Ass Expo.
Omnipresent marketing. Means you’re boxing in the seller. Everywhere they look you’re in front of them.
Justin
The layering strategy so you’re seeing the message in print media and online.
Julie
I think that direct mail is the first step in the sequence.
First class or standard class mail?
Justin
First class a few days. Will get returned mail.
Standard could take a few weeks. Won’t get returned.
Start with First Class to get the returned mail.
Julie
You can do that on a drop sequence, right?
Justin
That’s the thing and the reason that I started Open Letter, I found there were much better ways than what others were using.
The auto drop is one of the things that most people use. Because people will forget to do their marketing.
Julie
And if anyone out there is to just getting started you NEED to learn to lead generate for yourself.
Newbies get info overload and they don’t take care of the most important things.
They need to understand what they bring to the table, and then figure out their lending situation, and lastly they need to figure out marketing, like your team at Open Letter Marketing.
How about envelops?
Justin
As far as types… it’s more so the messaging. Everyone is going to respond a little differently. We always mix it up. We start with a handwritten letter. We look at every single thing and see how we can do it better. I also test it in my business first to see how it works.
The hand written letter will get more responses, but less quality responses.
By the time your at the end of the campaign you’re sending a professional letter with the most information.
Julie
You’re actually having a conversation with the sellers. That’s great!
How about font styles?
Justin
It’s interesting. Hand written, it’s about authentic as possible. But with older people it’s more difficult to read. We will ask random people if they can read it. We need the end prospect to understand what you’re asking them.
There’s even varence when there are two t’s… we don’t have them look the same.
Julie
Do you put your website on the mailers?
Justin
Yeah, I like to put my website and logo. These days people have websites, and really it’s just a lead magnet.
It’s not always the response rate that you’re looking for. When you get to the company level you want to look at deal rate.
Julie
If you’re using a website on the mailings… do you push them to a different site based on the target (divorce, probate, etc).
Justin
When I started, yes. But I found out I was offending them. So, today I send them all to the same site.
I use Call Rail and I can see what type of lead is coming in. I’d rather do that when I have a call then put it into my marketing.
Julie
You wouldn’t send it out that way.
Justin
The first few letters are really broad, but we get more specific as we send more pieces?
Julie
What’s the name of your real estate company?
Justin
JS2 Homes
Julie
How about with postcards… I know the Google Street View was awesome for a while. But what are your views on that?
Justin
We mix it up. Google Street View does work, but I wouldn’t use it over and over again. It will get a bump on the first mailer, but drop after that.
Julie
What are the digital marketing tools you offer?
Justin
Ringless voicemail and text message marketing.
We use these in conjunction with the direct mail.
This has caused the response rate to jump really high. The quality of the calls are OK.
We do this because we can have conversations with sellers that we wouldn’t have had otherwise. Maybe I can catch them if they will want to sell in 3-6-9 months, etc. Then I can keep them from going to someone else when they sell.
Julie
So how do you use ringless voicemail?
Justin
Your lead list is very important. You’re going to spend a lot of money on direct mail and marketing.
Your list is everything!
It will take me two to three months to create a new lead list. Then I will rank my leads (high, medium, low).
My low quality will get postcards because it costs less.
Julie
How do you figure out lead quality?
Justin
My high quality are my layered leads. Any property that’s on more than one lead list. Like driving for dollars, code violation, tax lean.
Julie
Very, very awesome!!!
He’s not only layering is list but ranking the source as well!
What is the super lead list generator?
Justin
People give us their full master lead list. One spreadsheet with all of the categories. We put it through our system and it will tell you what your highest quality leads are.
It’s a one time fee of $75.
Get all of your lists together and send us everything. No matter how big the list is.
Julie
I know that people are thinking “I could do that”, but how much is your time worth?
What’s your opinion… how much weight is the message vs just being there when they are ready?
Justin
Hands down the most important thing is consistency! This will get you in front of them when they are ready.
This is so important.
Julie
Absolutely!
I have a coaching platform but what I’ve learned is that it’s personality driven. So I ask people what will you do, and commit to… commit to something and become an expert at it.
There are some wholesalers out here that are only doing direct mail, and doing good, but people are afraid of having to learn something new.
Justin
So many investors are not marketers. They just want to work on houses.
We get people coming to us saying that they heard about another piece that’s working awesome in another market and they want to use it. That’s great, but don’t expect the same results.
Julie
Don’t fall hook line and sinker that someone has a magic bullet.
Justin
A lot of people want to use what I use. And I know that postcards don’t work well in my market. I use letters. But I have a ton of clients that are killing it with postcards.
It’s so important to track your results and refine what you’re doing. I don’t want people to spend more money than they have to.
Julie
This is super interesting, and we are drilling down on marketing type and list type. You might have a postcard that works great with one list but not another.
We are talking about investors that are mostly cheap asses, they want to go least expensive.
The beauty is that it depends on the type of list. Maybe the first touch is going to look different.
But in different markets it’s different…
Justin
Totally! I started by stuffing all of my own letters. When you start with direct mail start with postcards, track it, then try something else.
If you try sending letters, and they don’t do well, but the postcards did… you know you can send postcards.
If you are sending to a list… make sure you’re sending to 2-3k per mailing type to get some solid stats.
The people that are sending 25k or more, I can ask them almost anything I want to about their KPI’s. They have them all figured out. And I think that’s important. Measure your key performance indicators!
You always want to compare yourself to a bigger more successful business, and see what they are doing.
Julie
What CRM are people using?
Justin
There’s a bunch of different things. InvestorFuse and Podio based services. I use Podio and have customized it from the ground up.
Julie
What do you think about going strait to phone calls?
Justin
Honestly, I just want investors to do something. I know direct mail works great for me, but if people have more time than money… you can start with calling. If you have more money than time… start outsourcing direct mail.
I’m happy with whatever anyone chooses as long as they are doing something.
Julie
Do you recommend branded vs un branded?
Justin
It’s tough to get those KPI’s, but I’m liking branded because people can see your logo, website, or other, and they will remember you.
I want people to get my direct mail and remember me later on.
Julie
What do you think about the message of using the language for wholesalers saying that they want to buy their house, but don’t have any intention of actually buying it.
Checkout Jeff Watson and our podcast 63 on legal wholesaling.
How can you help with IP marketing?
Justin
We can identify the IP of a computer based on your list. Then we can run banner ads on different websites. Very similar to Facebook, but we don’t use Facebook. This is just the property address.
Julie
That is crazy and scary!
Are you helping people with the marketing as well?
Justin
The service that we partner with is getting people onto a banner of specific websites.
If the person lands on a website that we can run a banner on… we will run the banner.
Julie
When do the dollars start racking up?
Justin
Anytime someone sees it.
Julie
What about Facebook?
Justin
I’ve been testing Facebook with my own company, but we don’t offer it.
It was good, but they’ve changed how much info you can drill down into.
This is all moving so fast!
Julie
We did a podcast with Josh Schoenly on Facebook marketing.
Open Letter Marketing is going to tackle a lot of this for you.
How about text?
Justin
We do text with ringless voicemail. If we can’t get a ringless voicemail to go through, we will send them a text message saying that we couldn’t get ahold of them.
Julie
What about ringless voicemail legalities?
Justin
It’s really a big deep thing to get into, and it different in different states. Some people say they aren’t selling anything so they don’t worry about it.
We always say that this is up to the comfort of the client. We always scrub our list against people that will potentially sue you.
Julie
This is something that you need to be aware of.
Good stuff! Do you have any clients that are going head to head with iBuyers?
Justin
Yes we do! We have some people competing with them.
Julie
I’ve heard that Open Door has like 18% down there.
Good stuff! We could talk for ever and ever and ever.
Are you coming out to Tarl’s event this year?
Justin
Yes!
Julie
We’d love to have you on again.
The OG way to roll is direct mail!
Go to OpenLetterMarketing.com and see what you can do with them.
Any other podcast that you love?
Justin
Mindset and outside of real estate stuff
How I Built This Podcast
BiggerPockets Business Podcast
Ed Mylett
Julie
What’s the word out on the street…
Checkout Certain Lending with Nghi! Where we do My First 3 Deals, and people love that!
We have officially kicked our Skagit County meetup at Bob’s Burger and Brew. Check our website for more info on that.
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