On the show today we have an… Wholesaling with Keith Sant of Kind House Buyers!
Listen on: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Spotify
Show Links:
– Keith Sant’s website
– Our Lead Sherpa podcast
– Investor Carrot websites
– Our Legal Wholesaling Podcast with Jeff Watson
Show notes for Wholesaling with Keith Sant of Kind House Buyers!
The Vantastic Life is…
– is in Enumclaw WA!
Keith is with us today with Kind House Buyers and Julie met him at a minor league baseball game, and she was very impressed with him.
Keith did the 1% challenge for push-ups and got to 100 push-ups in a row. It’s so awesome!
Julie
That’s an example of your mindset which is important in having a successful business.
Hard work and focus can beat talent when talent is lazy.
Joe
Keith tell us about your whole life.
Keith
I grew up in a bad part of town in Auburn and dropped out of school when I was 15. Then I get emancipated and met a mentor randomly at a Home Depot who taught me how to be a man, and how I could stand up toe to toe with anyone (doctor, Indian chief, etc.).
Julie
Wow, how old were you?
Keith
I met him at 18 and moved back up to Seattle at 24.
I started a screen printing company and went back to school. Got an associated with honors then transferred to UW. But they didn’t have an entrepreneurial degree.
I knew that I didn’t want to work for anyone else. I’ve only worked at most for 8 months for someone else.
Julie
Why screen printing?
Keith
I have a screen printer available to me 🙂
Julie
Why real estate?
Keith
Well, I thought that the barrier of entry was too high, and I didn’t have a W2. Then I met a real estate investor at UW, but I didn’t want to bug him.
But I ran into him at a restaurant where he proposed to his girlfriend right there at the restaurant. I congratulated him and got his card. Then we met up for coffee and he taught me all about wholesaling?
Then I just wholesaled him a house recently.
Julie
Where did Kind House Buyers come from?
Keith
I’m big into SEO, and wanted something short, and went into research mode. But people have said that it fits me.
Julie
Is this full time or do you have a side hustle?
Keith
This is full time, and I’ve started doing some flips and that’s so much different.
I actually turned off my marketing when COVID started because I was rehabbing a few houses. But I’ve turned it back on and done 3 deals this month.
Julie
Nice! What now… with how hot our real estat market is here… we are in a little bit of a bubble.
What does it take to be a full time wholesaler? Like what does a day look like.
Keith
I’d like to say that I’m on a schedule, but you get thrown off at any given time.
I like to wake up at 4am and get centered.
First thing is typically getting data from my virtual assistant in Hundurus. She does that for about 2 hours, then we start texting people about 9am.
Julie
Are you using a texting service?
Keith
I’m using a service but they are not accepting new people right now. Lea Sherpa is one of the best ones out there?
Julie
Are there any pointers you can give anyone on text messaging to get attention?
Keith
Yeah, it’s all over.
Julie
How do you get the data?
Keith
Just from public sources. And I get the data everyday.
Julie
Then you send out texts, and what’s next?
Keith
Once it’s a warm or hot lead she books an appointment and puts it into our CRM, and we have a shared calendar.
I use texts because it’s one of the cheapest things we can do. My texts only cost cents. If they don’t respond then I go into the higher priced marketing. And I weed out people that aren’t interested very early.
Julie
What kind of response are you getting from texts and how much data are you getting each day?
Keith
Anywhere from 100-200 new each day. It doesn’t sound like a lot, but with all of the follow up it adds up.
Julie
When you’re pulling your data you don’t know the condition of the house. Do you do any research before sending the text?
Keith
I definitely niche that down. So there are things that I’m scrubbing for.
Julie
We are trying to help people out and one thing is lists. Do you layer lists at all?
Keith
Great question. I do texts to bigger lists and will layer or stack my data. I do a point system. Probate is 2 points and absentee is 1 point. If they get to 3 points I will send a letter of intent.
Julie
That’s actually sending intent to buy?
Keith
Yeah, I will give them some buying options. But only if they have lots of motivation.
Julie
What does your backend tech look like?
Keith
I use InvestorFuse and am stuck there. I would recommend BeastMode to new people. You don’t need an automated CRM until you are spending $3k a month. I still use CallRail, and like them for the most part.
Julie
When you are full on marketing what is your monthly spend?
Keith
For just WA it’s about $7-10 grand a month, and that’s 2-4 deals.
Julie
And why do you think you get those deals, is it the list..?
Keith
I think it’s consistency and different types of marketing. There’s a threshold like with direct mail, you could keep throwing money at it, but your margins will decrease.
I spend less than $2k a month on texting and am almost guaranteed a deal a month from that.
Julie
So they are seeing you in more than one way. Omnipresent is I think what it’s called.
Keith
Absolutely, but you just aren’t going to catch people on certain platforms. Like, you’ll never get an absentee owner on a bandit sign.
I go to texts, then ringless voicemails which will get to land lines. People that can sell at a discount have home phones.
Then if I can’t get them on those two, I’ll try Facebook ads.
Julie
Do you do custom Facebook marketing?
Keith
Absolutely, it’s one of my best marketing sources. I upload that list everyday.
Julie
Is that 100 names… do you add to your list or have different lists?
Keith
I’m more generic and will throw smaller lists into that.
Julie
Are you using emails or phone numbers?
Keith
Both.
Julie
If you do both does it have to be a match on both?
Keith
That’s a good question, and honestly I never thought about that.
Julie
If anyone wants to learn about this, I teach it on in my VIP training community. Just contact me.
There are so many people that have backed out of Facebook marketing because of the pandemic.
Are you then pixeling them?
Keith
Yes, absolutely! We start off with generic and then retarget them with a different list, and then if they still don’t respond there was some kind of hesitation. What was it that they didn’t like about you, or something is holding them back. You need to cancel out objections with follow up ads.
Julie
What are you asking for on your lead form?
I get a lot of clicks, but can’t get them to convert over.
Keith
So, I don’t like using lead forms on Facebook. I send them to my website because I think that selling a house is a really big decision. So they get to the lead form on my website.
Julie
When you got started what was the biggest learning curve for you?
Keith
I started in Texas with a partner. I did all the marketing, emails, texts, set the appointments. And my partner did the negotiating. And he was the BEST!!!
So when I got back up here by myself I realized that I wasn’t a negotiator. I’m an introvert, and I had to do a lot of practicing.
Jay Scott’s book
Never Split the Difference is amazing
John Martinez at MidWestRev.com he has over 100 free videos
* John’s tips worked!
Julie
What is your education these days?
Keith
I’m actually studying to get my license.
Julie
Oh, yeah!
Keith
Yeah, like you said, the market is changing.
Julie
It would be really fun to talk with you once you get your license.
So you’re down in Pierce?
Keith
Yeah, Tacoma.
Julie
How often do you have to renegotiate?
Keith
Not often. But I did have to renegotiate on my first deal.
The numbers were right, but investors looked at the house as a headache.
I’ve only renegotiate like 2 other deals though.
Julie
Nice! What’s your magic there?
Keith
I like to be the first person to throw out an offer. Some people are different about this.
If people can work me up then they feel better about it, and the seller doesn’t have to feel like a lier.
Julie
How much lower do you usually go on your offer.
Keith
I really hope that people go out and implement, and that’s the biggest thing and saddest thing. There’s so much information out there for free.
Julie
You need to surround yourself with people that are willing to collaborate.
We are always willing to help.
But how low do you need to start when you’re anchoring someone?
Keith
It’s not a big anchor, I probably offer too much. I don’t get huge assignments. I want to do a service for the seller and the buyer. I’m building relationships with the seller and the buyer. But I want referrals and good reviews.
I really probably only offer $5k less than the most I can offer.
I will anchor by saying that my partner wanted to go in at this number, and I know you probably won’t take it, and I feel bad.
Julie
It’s interesting that you say that. I’m actually more like you when Joe and I were full time wholesaling. But I wanted to be at a higher price point.
Our average wholesaling fees were anywhere was $10-15K and I think we might have had $32k one time. But it’s so much easier to convert between a wholesale fee and commission. They are taxed the same so what’s the difference in my mind.
I always had a moral issue with that with having a license. It always bothered me. And it took my ability away from asking for a listing and making the same amount of money.
This is just me guys, I’m just talking about my same experience.
So, are you still using bandit signs our Craigslist?
Keith
Yep, I still use both.
Julie
Are they still working?
Keith
I just got a bandit sign deal this month, so they still work.
Julie
How to you put them out?
Keith
I hire someone to put out 30 a week. I don’t try to get code enforcement too mad at me.
I’m averaging about 2 deals per 500 bandit signs.
Pay per click is my most expensive source. A cost per lead around here is $200-300 and I can close about 1 in 12.
Julie
If you’re spending $10k month that’s texting, bandit signs, PPC, Facebook, and SEO.
Keith
Yep, and I pay for some SEO.
Julie
You love Carrot sites right?
Keith
I’m a big fan of Carrot in general. It’s about so much more than real estate. Like life balance. And they have a great company culture. They are out of Roseburg OR. And they have a mastermind called Carrot Camp where you need to be making at least $100k/year, and I’m going back in September. So super stoked about that.
Carrot is a website company for investors and agents that are high converting and have a lot of website optimization built in.
Julie
We could talk to you for hours, and would love to have you on our mastermind again!
One last question, do you sell most of your deals to a handful of deals?
Keith
Yeah, absolutely. I have like 4-5 investors that buy most of my deals.
It’s so much easier and faster to work with less people. That’s what I do right now.
Julie
I always say that the dirty little secret of wholesaling is that they sell to only 5 people.
Maybe you could get more brokers that could help out…
Have you done any wholetails?
Keith
I have! I actually just did one down in Texas. And I want to do more of those.
Julie
We need to have you back on sometime, maybe after you’ve had your license after some time.
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